Are we ever going to find out how the OP money is/has been spent? Just wondered.

Goal keeping coach keep up

Bogle was 50 grand so that's nearly half of it.

And we put a fridge selling beer and 2 TV's into the bit where you go into the Upper Findus.

We have paid for loan players ,

Even though we did not need them.

We needed a CM pete. Just robinson didnt really make that much of an impact

Quoted from Hagrid

We needed a CM pete. Just robinson didnt really make that much of an impact

We could have put East there and played Tait at full back.

If people thought that 110 grand was going to guarantee us automatic promotion, then they would have been better off keeping their money in their pocket. Being unfairly used as a stick to beat the club with IMO. I'm as disappointed as the next man at where we are but c'mon chaps, it's a years wages for a couple of decent players.

Quoted from ginnywings

If people thought that 110 grand was going to guarantee us automatic promotion, then they would have been better off keeping their money in their pocket. Being unfairly used as a stick to beat the club with IMO. I'm as disappointed as the next man at where we are but c'mon chaps, it's a years wages for a couple of decent players.

Spot on. I bet that £110K wouldn't even cover the salary of some of FGR's players.

Quoted from ginnywings

If people thought that 110 grand was going to guarantee us automatic promotion, then they would have been better off keeping their money in their pocket. Being unfairly used as a stick to beat the club with IMO. I'm as disappointed as the next man at where we are but c'mon chaps, it's a years wages for a couple of decent players.

Spot on and think Parkin is reputedly on about £3k a week.

Quoted from ginnywings

If people thought that 110 grand was going to guarantee us automatic promotion, then they would have been better off keeping their money in their pocket. Being unfairly used as a stick to beat the club with IMO. I'm as disappointed as the next man at where we are but c'mon chaps, it's a years wages for a couple of decent players.

Maybe not Ginny, but out of respect for those who put so much time and effort into the fundraising, I think it would only be right to keep fans updated, rather than it just be swallowed up in the clubs budget.

I remember widespread agreement on here that people didn't want to know in case it put undue pressure on who it was used for.

Quoted from ginnywings

If people thought that 110 grand was going to guarantee us automatic promotion, then they would have been better off keeping their money in their pocket. Being unfairly used as a stick to beat the club with IMO. I'm as disappointed as the next man at where we are but c'mon chaps, it's a years wages for a couple of decent players.

Good post and looking at what the club has to play with it could well be that it was just absorbed into the budget for the existing squad and possibly a bit to bring in decent loans around the next window if we are in contention.  

I would imagine that at are level the senior pro's are possibly on between 30 - 40K max with a bonus structure and a bit extra if you captain the side etc.... A fair bot behind the Parkin's of this world.  

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Maybe not Ginny, but out of respect for those who put so much time and effort into the fundraising, I think it would only be right to keep fans updated, rather than it just be swallowed up in the clubs budget.

For the sake of clarity could you expand on who you mean by "those who put so much time and effort into the fundraising".
Thanks in advance

Quoted from barralad

For the sake of clarity could you expand on who you mean by "those who put so much time and effort into the fundraising".
Thanks in advance

Not you  ;)

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Not you  ;)

**Like**

Is there anything left uncommitted.

Quoted from barralad

For the sake of clarity could you expand on who you mean by "those who put so much time and effort into the fundraising".
Thanks in advance

Those of you who worked damned hard to deliver the whole campaign, raising, money, raising the profile of the club and delivering the auction items.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Those of you who worked damned hard to deliver the whole campaign, raising, money, raising the profile of the club and delivering the auction items.

Thanks for that. It was a genuine question. I didn't want my reply to be off the mark as it were. When the Trust Board decided to go with Operation Promotion it was always on the understanding with the fans and the club that any monies raised would specifically be used to boost the transfer funds available to Paul Hurst for the season 2015/16. In other words the club were left in no doubt that the money had to be used for the recruitment/retention of playing staff for this season-something that the club were happy to agree to. That was specified throughout the actual campaign to make it very clear what people were donating to. We also decided for the reason quoted by Rodley earlier in the thread that "Boost the Budget" shouldn't become "Recruit a Specific Player". In addition it was recognised that at our level large transfer fees are by and large a thing of the past if indeed they ever really existed. There were a lot of players out of contract at the end of last season who the club and fans alike wanted to see retained. Contrary to what some might think being on the Board of the Trust doesn't make me or other Board members privy to the financial dealings of GTFC. We have had to trust (no pun intended) that the money has been spent in those areas-something I have no problem in doing. It isn't difficult to see that you could apportion a fair amount of that money to the renewal of certain contracts as well as the recruitment of new players-some of whom had dropped a level to play for us. For those amongst us who can make head or tail of financial documents I suspect the only definitive answer will lie in the end of year accounts for the year which includes the Operation Promotion.
I've never made any secret of the fact that I joined the Board of the Mariner's Trust because I wanted to do my bit towards trying to ensure that in the future the fortunes (financial) of GTFC were not dependent on the generosity of an individual benefactor. Operation Promotion showed me and my colleagues that there is a love and affection for GTFC in the country at large that transcends any daft arguments that we have on this message board. The fans who gave freely of their money-some as I can testify from working for a while with the pledge sheets more than perhaps they should ;), my colleagues who worked incredibly hard during the exercise and have continued since and the people who gave freely of their time to promote things can be extremely proud of what has been achieved. I feel that looking at some of the players we have managed to attract that in a small way I've done something to ensure that they can turn out in the black and white stripes. I suspect I won't be the only one.

Quoted from barralad

Thanks for that. It was a genuine question. I didn't want my reply to be off the mark as it were. When the Trust Board decided to go with Operation Promotion it was always on the understanding with the fans and the club that any monies raised would specifically be used to boost the transfer funds available to Paul Hurst for the season 2015/16. In other words the club were left in no doubt that the money had to be used for the recruitment/retention of playing staff for this season-something that the club were happy to agree to. That was specified throughout the actual campaign to make it very clear what people were donating to. We also decided for the reason quoted by Rodley earlier in the thread that "Boost the Budget" shouldn't become "Recruit a Specific Player". In addition it was recognised that at our level large transfer fees are by and large a thing of the past if indeed they ever really existed. There were a lot of players out of contract at the end of last season who the club and fans alike wanted to see retained. Contrary to what some might think being on the Board of the Trust doesn't make me or other Board members privy to the financial dealings of GTFC. We have had to trust (no pun intended) that the money has been spent in those areas-something I have no problem in doing. It isn't difficult to see that you could apportion a fair amount of that money to the renewal of certain contracts as well as the recruitment of new players-some of whom had dropped a level to play for us. For those amongst us who can make head or tail of financial documents I suspect the only definitive answer will lie in the end of year accounts for the year which includes the Operation Promotion.
I've never made any secret of the fact that I joined the Board of the Mariner's Trust because I wanted to do my bit towards trying to ensure that in the future the fortunes (financial) of GTFC were not dependent on the generosity of an individual benefactor. Operation Promotion showed me and my colleagues that there is a love and affection for GTFC in the country at large that transcends any daft arguments that we have on this message board. The fans who gave freely of their money-some as I can testify from working for a while with the pledge sheets more than perhaps they should ;), my colleagues who worked incredibly hard during the exercise and have continued since and the people who gave freely of their time to promote things can be extremely proud of what has been achieved. I feel that looking at some of the players we have managed to attract that in a small way I've done something to ensure that they can turn out in the black and white stripes. I suspect I won't be the only one.

So having cleared all that up, can you and your colleagues ask the powers that be to pick the players that might deliver the prime objective!

Quoted from MuddyWaters

So having cleared all that up, can you and your colleagues ask the powers that be to pick the players that might deliver the prime objective!

I fell into that trap didn't I. Shame really...

Quoted from barralad

I fell into that trap didn't I. Shame really...

No offence - but yes, you did! ;)

Quoted from MuddyWaters

No offence - but yes, you did! ;)

Could have saved myself half an hours work. I honestly thought you were genuinely interested.

Well I enjoyed reading it. I'm sure it cleared it up for countless others too.

Quoted from barralad

Could have saved myself half an hours work. I honestly thought you were genuinely interested.

;) No, to be serious. I'm full of admiration for all those who put so much into Operation Promotion and that's why I asked the question in the first place. I appreciate that no player wants the burden of 'I'm the player the fans paid for' on his back but just thought that the club may have been transparent about how the money was being used - I admit I missed the goalkeeping coach bit - and hoped that it just wasn't being swallowed up into the budget.

I honestly thought after we raised that sum,

With the players Hurst has signed,

We would win this league,

I would not be disappointed if we went up through the play offs,

BUT

If we are still in this league next season then we need a new leader,

BECAUSE

If Hurst can not get us promoted with these players he will never do it.

Still sat on the fence at the moment but getting an itchy bum.

Quoted from grimsby pete

I honestly thought after we raised that sum,

With the players Hurst has signed,

We would win this league,

I would not be disappointed if we went up through the play offs,

BUT

If we are still in this league next season then we need a new leader,

BECAUSE

If Hurst can not get us promoted with these players he will never do it.

Still sat on the fence at the moment but getting an itchy bum.

Money guarantees nothing Pete, it's how it's spent that's crucial. Although clearly the more money you've got in the pot, the better chance you have.

Despite being accused of being a miserable, negative old tw@t, I still believe that apart from one quality midfielder, we have the best squad in this league and the best squad since the Slade season - I'm just running out of faith in the manager's ability to get the best out of them.

The only explanation I can come up with is that it's because he was a defender and he doesn't know how to get the best out of attackers.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Money guarantees nothing Pete, it's how it's spent that's crucial. Although clearly the more money you've got in the pot, the better chance you have.

Despite being accused of being a miserable, negative old tw@t, I still believe that apart from one quality midfielder, we have the best squad in this league and the best squad since the Slade season - I'm just running out of faith in the manager's ability to get the best out of them.

The only explanation I can come up with is that it's because he was a defender and he doesn't know how to get the best out of attackers.

Hard to get the best out of attackers that score goals, then get left on the bench.  :-/

Quoted from ginnywings

Hard to get the best out of attackers that score goals, then get left on the bench.  :-/

Quite - especially for the mandatory 70 minutes.  :o

Shame the thread gets turned into another anti Hurst thread. :o

Quoted from barralad

Shame the thread gets turned into another anti Hurst thread. :o

I am not anti Hurst Yet Ian,

BUT

He has got a quality squad that any half decent manager would get us promoted,

I said if he fails with this squad he will never do it,

He has made mistakes in the past so lets hope he learns from this poor start,

AND

Start selecting his strongest team every week.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Are we ever going to find out how the OP money is/has been spent? Just wondered.

AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH.

I contributed twice to Operation Promotion - a pittance compared to some folks on here but at I did at least put something into the kitty. I don't care how it is / was spent. I don't want a breakdown of how it was used. I trust that the club used it in the best ways possible. I don't recall seeing anywhere, when I pledged, that I would be promised a breakdown of how the money would be spent. The club didn't ASK for the money. They can't be given the money as a 'gift', then expect to justify how it was used.

Please. Just give up. If it bothers you so much, write to the club rather than posting threads like this as you'll never get the answers you want.

***FTAO MAJORITY***

You know who you are , (looks at self)  sorry now if i have to i will (stern face) will go back through previous threads , the majority of you (looks at self again) want to keep paul hurst until xmas , now a draw or a loss tomorow isnt going to change your minds now surely.

You never know we might win and im paddling my own canoe again with array array in the back and acko mariner in the front (grim drowned i think ) and the old codger the fornicator swimming behind us (zimmer frame intact on canoe)

Yes pete im looking at you too  ;D

Remember i know who you are (points finger)   ;)

Quoted from jonnyboy82

***FTAO MAJORITY***

You know who you are , (looks at self)  sorry now if i have to i will (sturn face) will go back through previous threads , the majority of you (looks at self again) want to keep paul hurst until xmas , now a draw or a loss tomorow isnt going to change your minds now surely.

You never know we might win and im paddling my own canoe again with array array in the back and acko mariner in the front (grim drowned i think ) and the old codger the fornicator swimming behind us (zimmer frame intact on canoe)

Yes pete im looking at you too  ;D

Remember i know who you are (points finger)   ;)

Even by your parlous standards that was a bag of utter drivel. Im bound to ask..Does your headmaster know you spend so much time on here?

I think Christmas will be too late Jonnyboy,

I give him until Saturday,

If we do not beat Gateshead and Braintree ,

I will tell him to go to his face.



Because

I am bigger than him ;D

Quoted from barralad

Even by your parlous standards that was a bag of utter drivel. Im bound to ask..Does your headmaster know you spend so much time on here?

Barra you mean my boss  ;D

Why even waste your time replying to me ,  oh and dont worry you are not one of the above.

We all know you are king of the clappers , i nearly wrote slappers then  ;D ;D

You win. I can't possibly beat that level of rapier sharp wit. The juxtaposition of slappers and clappers-pure genius!

Im astounded that you are employed. I thought child labour was outlawed decades ago.

Quoted from grimsby pete

I am not anti Hurst Yet Ian,

BUT

He has got a quality squad that any half decent manager would get us promoted,

I said if he fails with this squad he will never do it,

He has made mistakes in the past so lets hope he learns from this poor start,

AND

Start selecting his strongest team every week.

I have no problem with anyones views. I  just wondered why a thread that has nothing to do with Hurst per se has to be turned into another opportunity to rubbish the manager.

Quoted from barralad

I have no problem with anyones views. I  just wondered why a thread that has nothing to do with Hurst per se has to be turned into another opportunity to rubbish the manager.

I think there are a few posters that are just sick of being down in this league,

AND

Can not see us getting out of it any time soon.

It's called frustration !

Quoted from grimsby pete

I think there are a few posters that are just sick of being down in this league,

AND

Can not see us getting out of it any time soon.

It's called frustration !

Well I'd call it a complete lack of self-restraint.

The Hurst out brigade must be starting to shout louder than the happy clappers as Pete has switched over. Again.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

The Hurst out brigade must be starting to shout louder than the happy clappers as Pete has switched over. Again.

Nah not us shouting, just the manager messing around to much with the team

Quoted from ackomariner

Nah not us shouting, just the manager messing around to much with the team

Err he didn't mess around with it. He played the same team that won the previous game 4-0. I thought you were unhappy because he didn't mess with it enough?

Quoted from barralad

Err he didn't mess around with it. He played the same team that won the previous game 4-0. I thought you were unhappy because he didn't mess with it enough?

He didn't need to mess around with the team that started banging goals in for fun, but has dropped a player for missing a header at Altrincham.  He needs to take a look back over the last two seasons when ljl missed loads of chances, but no, never dropped him did he.
He's asking for trouble messing around like he's doing and it will bite him on the bottom eventually. The bloke has managed to kill off all the expectations what come with operation promotion and pre season. To be sitting 10th is not good enough IMO and its down to the manager and the way he sets his teams up.
The last few games the full backs have started hitting the long ball again into the channels in the hope of finding a striker. Were going back to the same way of playing again as we have done the last two seasons, boring, slow and very, very predictable

Quoted from ackomariner

He didn't need to mess around with the team that started banging goals in for fun, but has dropped a player for missing a header at Altrincham.  He needs to take a look back over the last two seasons when ljl missed loads of chances, but no, never dropped him did he.
He's asking for trouble messing around like he's doing and it will bite him on the bottom eventually. The bloke has managed to kill off all the expectations what come with operation promotion and pre season. To be sitting 10th is not good enough IMO and its down to the manager and the way he sets his teams up.
The last few games the full backs have started hitting the long ball again into the channels in the hope of finding a striker. Were going back to the same way of playing again as we have done the last two seasons, boring, slow and very, very predictable

In all honesty you cannot say that the highlighted point is true. Does anyone really think Amond was "dropped" because of that one thing? It's barely credible. It's something of a sweeping statement to say that Hurst has killed off all pre-season/op. prom. expectations.
We'll have to agree to disagree about positions in the table. I happen to believe that it makes no difference overall at all. We are nearer the top now than we were four games ago when people were bleating on here that we couldn't possibly make up 12(?) points on FGR..

I don't think the money matters. OK we know some was spent on Bogle and we probably wouldn't have got him otherwise but that's still a secondary consideration when we think back to Operation Promotion.

Remember those heady days of optimism? We were all convinced that this would be our year. The team that was grinding out results last year only needed that bit of flair and striker power and we were off and running. The pre-season and even the first few games went by and our optimism probably grew. Four goals at home!! Unheard of. It seemed as though the signings had done the trick and the manager was converted to letting our team go for the jugular against any opposition.

Where are we now? Grinding out away results and home games settling back into the time worn routine of playing to nullify opposition and hoping for the best. Long periods of long ball for the knock on and short periods of passing. The strikers who looked so good are now bench warmers. We still lack depth in midfield and we play with one and a half wingers at most with rarely a decent cross into the box.

Everyone is agreed that this is our best ever Conference squad and it's almost complete, but here we are in 10th place and not looking as though those few minutes of passing will ever become more than that and our threat in the box depends on an injury prone reserve and a loanee.

If anyone had told us in July that this is where we would be and how we would be playing I'm sure Operation Promotion wouldn't have made £10k let alone £110K. That's the real price we've paid - being over-optimistic and believing our manager would take our team and take our league by storm when it's just not in his nature.

Am I missing something or in our last 3 games have we been the first team to get a result at Wrexham all season, won 4-0 away and then edged a draw against the team who are top of the league and the champions-elect according to many on here?

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Am I missing something or in our last 3 games have we been the first team to get a result at Wrexham all season, won 4-0 away and then edged a draw against the team who are top of the league and the champions-elect according to many on here?

True enough. But why then do people think this is a knife edge? One thing is that we HAD to get a result at Wrexham & Southport or we would have been lower than 10th because of previous results. Your point is fair enough Rodley, If it had been 9 points or even 7 with 3 outstanding performances your argument would be stronger though.

I'm obviously in the pro-Hurst camp but a few weeks ago I'll admit i was getting pretty concerned as we were 13 (?) points off the top of the league and when I looked at the fixture list we had a pretty tough run coming up. We've not been brilliant in that stretch but we're putting an unbeaten run together, we're about to come out of the tough run and we've virtually halved the gap to the top. Ignore league position, because at this point of the season it doesn't matter as much as points, and we really aren't that far off it.

I get why some people aren't happy, I get that the team selections can infuriate and I get thst this season hasn't been what we wanted but I really don't get the near vitriol from some posters and the demand for the managers head at this moment in time.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Am I missing something or in our last 3 games have we been the first team to get a result at Wrexham all season, won 4-0 away and then edged a draw against the team who are top of the league and the champions-elect according to many on here?

Yet we are still tenth.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

The Hurst out brigade must be starting to shout louder than the happy clappers as Pete has switched over. Again.

I have not switched sides yet Rodney,

I have said if we do not win the next 2 games I will have had enough of him,

Lets see what team he puts out in the next 2 games and what the results are.

BUT

I am not happy with him at the moment.

Jesus Christ did you actually read what I wrote?

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Jesus Christ did you actually read what I wrote?

What did I not understand ?

You said I have switched sides again,

I said I have not,   yet !

Sorry Pete that wasn't aimed at you but sausage-boy. Should've quoted.

Quoted from grimsby pete

What did I not understand ?

You said I have switched sides again,

I said I have not,   yet !

You seem to change your mind on Hurst more often than I change my socks. I think that is the point RM is making.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

I'm obviously in the pro-Hurst camp but a few weeks ago I'll admit i was getting pretty concerned as we were 13 (?) points off the top of the league and when I looked at the fixture list we had a pretty tough run coming up. We've not been brilliant in that stretch but we're putting an unbeaten run together, we're about to come out of the tough run and we've virtually halfed the gap to the top. Ignore league position, because at this point of the season it doesn't matter as much as points, and we really aren't that far off it.

I get why some people aren't happy, I get that the team selections can infuriate and I get thst this season hasn't been what we wanted but I really don't get the near vitriol from some posters and the demand for the managers head at this moment in time.

I get where your coming from rodley and wish I could be the same, but just looking at how we've started playing, messing with the team to please everyone and all I can see is the same management making errors again and learnt nothing apart from being pig headed.
We've gained a few points back on the leaders but they've only taken 2 points out of there last 5 games, so looking at it, we should've closed the gap more than what we have done IMO.
So we really haven't changed from being a steady Eddie but forest green have taken a bit of a fall, but still sit above by 7 points.
Ph does not instill any confidence in my beliefs that we will get promoted with him in charge.

Fair enough Acko. We disagree but I get where you're coming from as well.

Quoted from mariner91

You seem to change your mind on Hurst more often than I change my socks. I think that is the point RM is making.

I wonder why that is ?

We are either on a long winning run or a losing or drawing one,

When Hurst can get his results to be more positive,

I will be more positive towards him,

At the moment I am not convinced  but can be swayed either way,

The ball is in Hurst's court.

Quoted from ackomariner

I get where your coming from rodley and wish I could be the same, but just looking at how we've started playing, messing with the team to please everyone and all I can see is the same management making errors again and learnt nothing apart from being pig headed.
We've gained a few points back on the leaders but they've only taken 2 points out of there last 5 games, so looking at it, we should've closed the gap more than what we have done IMO.
So we really haven't changed from being a steady Eddie but forest green have taken a bit of a fall, but still sit above by 7 points.
Ph does not instill any confidence in my beliefs that we will get promoted with him in charge.

We probably could have closed the gap more but our fixtures have been quite difficult, it's not been terrible and seven points is a lot better than it was. I also don't think (hope) that we'll see at least one of Bogle and Amond played from now on but I guess we'll see. I still think we'll be there or thereabouts this season but equally I still think we're lacking a dominating, mobile midfielder.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Sorry Pete that wasn't aimed at you but sausage-boy. Should've quoted.

OK mate no problem.

Quoted from barralad

Shame the thread gets turned into another anti Hurst thread. :o

No intent to do so on my part - just tried to point out that money helps but is no guarantee.

Hurst is the man to take us up. my opinion will never change on this

Quoted from MuddyWaters

No intent to do so on my part - just tried to point out that money helps but is no guarantee.

Pretentious? Moi?

Quoted from jonnyboy82

Yet we are still tenth.

And if we had one more point, we'd be in 7th and two more points we'd be in 5th. It's very close at the moment - probably the closest we've seen the top half of the table since we were relegated to this level. We'll have a better idea of where things stand in this division at the turn of the year.

When you think how many points daft defensive blunders have cost us already, you can see why our improved defensive record in the past few games has been so important.

A bit better at the back over the past couple of weeks but just need to get the balance right and stick one or two in at the other end as well now. Hopefully, the return of Arnold and Marshall will help pep up our attacking options at bit more.

Quoted from mariner91

We probably could have closed the gap more but our fixtures have been quite difficult, it's not been terrible and seven points is a lot better than it was. I also don't think (hope) that we'll see at least one of Bogle and Amond played from now on but I guess we'll see. I still think we'll be there or thereabouts this season but equally I still think we're lacking a dominating, mobile midfielder.

Agree with the midfielder  :)

Quoted from Maringer

And if we had one more point, we'd be in 7th and two more points we'd be in 5th. It's very close at the moment - probably the closest we've seen the top half of the table since we were relegated to this level. We'll have a better idea of where things stand in this division at the turn of the year.

When you think how many points daft defensive blunders have cost us already, you can see why our improved defensive record in the past few games has been so important.

A bit better at the back over the past couple of weeks but just need to get the balance right and stick one or two in at the other end as well now. Hopefully, the return of Arnold and Marshall will help pep up our attacking options at bit more.

With ph hell bent with clean sheets are the attacking intentions going to suffer though. I've noticed the last few games just how deep the midfield are sitting and are miles away from the forwards, hence the full backs now hitting the channels in the hope of a willing runner

Quoted from ackomariner

With ph hell bent with clean sheets are the attacking intentions going to suffer though. I've noticed the last few games just how deep the midfield are sitting and are miles away from the forwards, hence the full backs now hitting the channels in the hope of a willing runner

This isn't aimed at you because to be honest I've no real idea where you stand on the issue but earlier in the season despite scoring goals for fun there were a group of posters on here who obsessed about the lack of a "clean sheet". There were even whole threads dedicated to the subject. Now it looks like Hurst is looking more critically at the way the team is set up defensively people are still not happy. I'd prefer to see 4-1 wins at home rather than scrambled 1-0s or draws because I see that home fans deserve to see their team attacking but I can also see the virtue in playing it tight and being very difficult to beat. It isn't and never has been a "one fits all" way to achieve the desired aim of promotion and I will never understand why some cannot see that.

Quoted from Maringer

And if we had one more point, we'd be in 7th and two more points we'd be in 5th.

If my aunt had spherical objects she'd be my uncle.

We are where we are. People keep saying that when others complain about us being a conference side so now let's admit we are where we are. Tenth place, playing like a mid-table side, happy to put 4 past a defence with more holes than a colander, happy to take one point off the leaders who were more than happy to deny us two.

The OP wanted to know about the money, I want to know about the effect of that money and the support of the fans pre-season on team performance now. So far it seems there has been precious little evidence it has made one iota of difference.

We've got more than two thirds of the season remaining! We've played well in fits and starts this season and poorly in fits and starts yet we're only 2 points behind a play-off place, 7 points off top place and we've got another 96 points to play for!

From the way some were speaking on here, you would think that we were doomed with absolutely no chance of promotion this season. Utter nonsense, of course.

I think the squad we have this season quite capable of putting together a really good run of form (more capable that the one we had last year which managed it). Just waiting for it to begin now.

Hopefully, I'm right.  :)

You would think that the ones that are not happy with our position want Town to fail,

Well surprise surprise we don't,

We want Town to win just as much if not more than the happy clappers,

If Town win tomorrow and at Braintree I would be over the moon,

Even if it means Hurst keeps his job a while longer,

I do not want Hurst sacked I would rather he got us promoted.

Quoted from Maringer

We've got more than two thirds of the season remaining! We've played well in fits and starts this season and poorly in fits and starts yet we're only 2 points behind a play-off place, 7 points off top place and we've got another 96 points to play for!

From the way some were speaking on here, you would think that we were doomed with absolutely no chance of promotion this season. Utter nonsense, of course.

I think the squad we have this season quite capable of putting together a really good run of form (more capable that the one we had last year which managed it). Just waiting for it to begin now.

Hopefully, I'm right.  :)

Hopefully you are. Hopefully the bookies are. Hopefully I'll win the lottery and the premium bonds in the same week.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Hopefully you are. Hopefully the bookies are. Hopefully I'll win the lottery and the premium bonds in the same week.

My views come from what I have seen of the quality of our squad this season. We've got better players than last season so we should perform better. Nothing guaranteed, of course, but I'm still feeling relatively confident we can challenge for promotion once again.

The bookies think we'll be up there simply because that is where the bets have been laid, many of them by people who haven't ever seen us play.

Lottery and Premium Bonds are simple chance so just aren't relevant to this discussion.

Quoted from barralad

This isn't aimed at you because to be honest I've no real idea where you stand on the issue but earlier in the season despite scoring goals for fun there were a group of posters on here who obsessed about the lack of a "clean sheet". There were even whole threads dedicated to the subject. Now it looks like Hurst is looking more critically at the way the team is set up defensively people are still not happy. I'd prefer to see 4-1 wins at home rather than scrambled 1-0s or draws because I see that home fans deserve to see their team attacking but I can also see the virtue in playing it tight and being very difficult to beat. It isn't and never has been a "one fits all" way to achieve the desired aim of promotion and I will never understand why some cannot see that.

I've got the mentality of " you score 2, we'll score 3

I'd rather go for the jugular from the off and try and get the game put to bed, but that's just me.....

Quoted from ackomariner

I've got the mentality of " you score 2, we'll score 3

I'd rather go for the jugular from the off and try and get the game put to bed, but that's just me.....

We are as one old chap! :)

But then I wouldn't moan when we conceded a goal when we were 4-0 up!

EDIT:- That doesn't mean I think you would!

Quoted from Maringer

My views come from what I have seen of the quality of our squad this season. We've got better players than last season so we should perform better. Nothing guaranteed, of course, but I'm still feeling relatively confident we can challenge for promotion once again.

The bookies think we'll be up there simply because that is where the bets have been laid, many of them by people who haven't ever seen us play.

Lottery and Premium Bonds are simple chance so just aren't relevant to this discussion.

You must have left your sense of humour at BP last time out!    ;)

Of course the squad is better, it just the results that aren't.

Quoted from barralad

We are as one old chap! :)

But then I wouldn't moan when we conceded a goal when we were 4-0 up!

EDIT:- That doesn't mean I think you would!

Twice in 24 hours we agree - hope we are still agreeing in 26 hours.

Quoted from Hagrid

Hurst is the man to take us up. my opinion will never change on this

Jimmy savile is great with kids, my opinion wil never....... Oh intercourse!!!

Quoted from barralad

Well I'd call it a complete lack of self-restraint.

When did I say I have any self restraint (bash)

Quoted from grimsby pete

We could have put East there and played Tait at full back.

Fans have moaned so much in the past about PH putting " square pegs in round holes " and here you are advocating just that ! East may have made some appearances in mid-field at a previous club but that doesn't mean he is either competent or comfortable in that position. IMO we would be better off getting another centre mid but PH doesn't see things that way and he is both the manager and more of a manager than I will ever be.

Quoted from rancido

Fans have moaned so much in the past about PH putting " square pegs in round holes " and here you are advocating just that ! East may have made some appearances in mid-field at a previous club but that doesn't mean he is either competent or comfortable in that position. IMO we would be better off getting another centre mid but PH doesn't see things that way and he is both the manager and more of a manager than I will ever be.

So if Disley or Clay gets injured during the course of tomorrow's game and under the assumption that Brown is not yet fit, who would you replace them with?

Quoted from MuddyWaters

So if Disley or Clay gets injured during the course of tomorrow's game and under the assumption that Brown is not yet fit, who would you replace them with?

Get toto in that square peg.

Non league viera.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

The only explanation I can come up with is that it's because he was a defender and he doesn't know how to get the best out of attackers.

Yet we're the second highest scorers in the league with the second best goal difference FFS

Quoted from Vance Warner

Yet we're the second highest scorers in the league with the second best goal difference FFS

Courtesy of three 4-1 home wins out of the 5 wins we've had.  Some people are so easily pleased.

Quoted from rancido

Fans have moaned so much in the past about PH putting " square pegs in round holes " and here you are advocating just that ! East may have made some appearances in mid-field at a previous club but that doesn't mean he is either competent or comfortable in that position. IMO we would be better off getting another centre mid but PH doesn't see things that way and he is both the manager and more of a manager than I will ever be.

It was only my opinion and I do not expect everybody to agree with me,

Quoted from jonnyboy82

Get toto in that square peg.

Non league viera.

No comparison between Toto and the non-league Vieira  ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magno_Vieira

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Courtesy of three 4-1 home wins out of the 5 wins we've had.  Some people are so easily pleased.

Only one team has scored more goals than us - Bromley (!) and their total includes 7 against Torquay. If our 4 goals in three games don't count, how many of their 7 goals in that match should count towards their total? We're scoring plenty, but not winning enough games at the moment.

Fact is that we're in our current position not because of the goals we have scored, but the ones we have let in at the other end. If we had conceded 1 goal less in 1 out of our 6 draws, we'd be in 5th place now. If we'd conceded 1 goal less in 2 out of our 6 draws, we'd be in 3rd place. I don't think anybody can disagree that we ought to have won at least 1 or 2 of the drawn games so far this season so the defence is clearly of great importance.

FGR won their first 9 games mostly because of their defensive record - they conceded just 4 goals in those 9 games! The champions in the Conference over the past 5 years have always been the top scorers, but have also had one of the best defences. Virtually no teams who win promotion/titles do so on the back of goalscoring alone so we'd be daft to try this tactic.

Quoted from Maringer

Only one team has scored more goals than us - Bromley (!) and their total includes 7 against Torquay. If our 4 goals in three games don't count, how many of their 7 goals in that match should count towards their total? We're scoring plenty, but not winning enough games at the moment.

Fact is that we're in our current position not because of the goals we have scored, but the ones we have let in at the other end. If we had conceded 1 goal less in 1 out of our 6 draws, we'd be in 5th place now. If we'd conceded 1 goal less in 2 out of our 6 draws, we'd be in 3rd place. I don't think anybody can disagree that we ought to have won at least 1 or 2 of the drawn games so far this season so the defence is clearly of great importance.

FGR won their first 9 games mostly because of their defensive record - they conceded just 4 goals in those 9 games! The champions in the Conference over the past 5 years have always been the top scorers, but have also had one of the best defences. Virtually no teams who win promotion/titles do so on the back of goalscoring alone so we'd be daft to try this tactic.

Here's another statistic for you - if we score more goals than the opposition in all the remaining games, I reckon we'll win the league.

See, it's easy to use statistics to fit your argument!

No, the statistics were my argument.

It is almost unheard of for a team with a poor defence to win promotion, regardless of how attack-minded they might be. The stats just reflect the reality of football.

Let's look at the Champions of the top 5 divisions over the past couple of years:

Chelsea = best defence, second best attack
Man City = 2nd best defence, best attack

Bournemouth = second best defence, best attack
Leicester = 3rd best defence, second best attack

Bristol City = best defence, second best attack
Wolves = best defence, best attack

Shrewsbury = 4th best defence, best attack
Chesterfield = 2nd best defence, best attack

Barnet = 3rd best defence, best attack
Luton = best defence, best attack

A limited sampling, but it's pretty clear that having a good defence is almost as important as a good attack when it comes to achieving success in football. Only Leicester of those 10 teams didn't have the best record in one or the other. I dare say you would find something similar if you could be bothered to go back further than a couple of years in all these divisions.

If you use a bit of common sense, you can clearly see why teams with a solid defence are actually likely to score more goals. If you're not chasing a game, you're less likely to be caught on the counter-attack. If you're in the lead in a game, you're more likely to get counter-attacking opportunities as your opponents push for an equaliser. It's no coincidence that our best results this season have come when we've scored an early goal.

I think there is a lot more to come from our forwards this season and hopefully a lot more clean sheets from our defence as well.

We've had 7 draws, which is 50% of our total games and way too many. Same last season and the season before it. Hurst has failed to get the right blend so far in his tenure. Whether he can finally crack it this year is open to debate. I'm yet to be convinced.

Last year, we didn't have the strikers to score the goals until the arrival of Palmer, but the defence was generally good. This season, we've got a much better selection of strikers (though they are perhaps lacking a bit in physicality), but the defence has been much too porous until recent games. I think we've got the defenders to make the defence as solid as the one from last season and we've got the strikers to score more goals. Stands to reason we have the capacity to do much better - providing the midfield can keep up!

I really do think it is a case of when we really get going as opposed to if. Of course, this doesn't guarantee others won't do better than us and I'm as frustrated that we dropped so many points through defensive errors in the early stages of the season as anyone else.

The talk of looking for a new manager at the start of October remains preposterous.

I'm afraid that the tightening of the defence has to come at the expense of goals for. Why else would we have our two most prolific strikers on the bench? It seems we can have a tight defence or a good attack, but he still hasn't cracked getting the two married together. More goals and assists from midfield would solve some of this but they just don't score enough as a unit and it is definitely the weak area once again. If last season is anything to go by, we won't get a decent midfielder in until it's too late.

Well, Amond reportedly wasn't fully fit and (I assume) Bogle hadn't looked up to scratch in training.

We did win 4-0 the week before with Pittman/Tomlinson so not a surprise they started again. Both did OK on the day without really achieving too much though Pittman took his goal well.

Just a pity that neither Bogle or Amond looks to be any good in the air because I think we'd struggle to play with those two up front together without Monkhouse on the wing to win some headers. If we can dominate possession against a team, you'd have to think that Arnold and Marshall ought to be able to create more problems for the opposition with their pace, but we need to get a toehold in the game and struggle with this a lot of the time, especially without somebody to win a few headers up front.

Quoted from Maringer

Well, Amond reportedly wasn't fully fit and (I assume) Bogle hadn't looked up to scratch in training.

We did win 4-0 the week before with Pittman/Tomlinson so not a surprise they started again. Both did OK on the day without really achieving too much though Pittman took his goal well.

Just a pity that neither Bogle or Amond looks to be any good in the air because I think we'd struggle to play with those two up front together without Monkhouse on the wing to win some headers. If we can dominate possession against a team, you'd have to think that Arnold and Marshall ought to be able to create more problems for the opposition with their pace, but we need to get a toehold in the game and struggle with this a lot of the time, especially without somebody to win a few headers up front.

They are good enough in the air if the crosses are good. The problem arises for the manager when the ball is hoofed up early and these two are expected to get a head on it to stop it coming straight back. The answer to this is simple - don't hoof the ball up. It's up to the manager to pick and coach the rest of the team to give them good opportunities to score goals. If they get those chances instead of being expected to make their own all the time they will score a hat full.

To me it makes no sense, in fact it is a ridiculous waste of money, to sign two good goalscorers and leave them on the bench purely because they are not able to provide the sort of brick wall in the middle of the park that the manager believes is number one priority for a striker. By all means leave them out if they are missing too many chances but not because they can't do a defensive job half way down the pitch. A decent coach builds a team to cover weaknesses as well as use strengths.

The long ball by the full backs to monkhouse didnt take long to appear did it.

We look such a better team when we pass it but the instructions seem clear to me, hoof it up to monkhouse.

But they aren't instructions, are they? Hurst has repeatedly (over the past few seasons) said he wants the ball to be passed more, but it is the players who tend to whack it long too often.

In defence of the defenders (ho ho), you'd have to say that the movement from our midfield and forwards is often pretty poor especially when the distribution of the defenders isn't the best in any case. They often have little choice but to whack it upfield though I do get frustrated with the slow and predictable way we play it around at the back in our own half at times. A player under no pressure often passes it sideways to one of his defensive colleagues who is then being closed down when he receives the ball and so invariably passes back to McKeown to whack upfield.

If the first player had just held onto the ball a bit longer and forced the opposition players to do something, we'd have a better chance of retaining possession and passing it upfield. You watch tonight - I guarantee we'll see several occasions where one of the centre halves or full-backs is under no pressure but passes it inside to a player under more pressure - a pass for the sake of passing instead of achieving anything - leading to us to play it back to McKeown for a whack upfield.

Ultimately, I don't think we have good enough distribution or movement in the squad to pass the ball in a way that, say, Mills' teams are set up to play. However, I'm in agreement we should be passing it a lot more intelligently and a lot better than we usually manage. Noticeable that we passed it around loads in pre-season in no-pressure games and tend to do the same once we get a comfortable lead against teams. When the game is tight, on the other hand, it ends up being the safety first whack upfield all too often.

Maringer well surely the players dont knock it long without an instruction to do so ?

There will be times when the ball has to go long but for me the way we are doing it seems to be a clear instruction

I agree in pre season we passed it so well which makes it more frustrating as to why we havent seen any when it matters.

Hurst has certainly commented that he likes the team to pass the ball and has (gently) criticised them for whacking it long too often in some games.

I'd imagine some might get the idea he's keen on the long ball because he isn't windmilling his arms on the touchline, trying to control the game from the side of the pitch like some managers do.

We know Hurst isn't someone to either overly praise or overly criticise his players and he obviously prefers to keep any criticism behind closed doors. This is fine by me and it has obviously helped with the good feeling within the squad, but it would still be nice if the players did attempt to pass the ball a bit more often when the time is right to do so.

Quoted from barralad

Well I'd call it a complete lack of self-restraint.

Ian do you remember sitting next to me at Braintree when we lost 5-0 ?

You shouted at John Fenty telling him this was unacceptable,

You showed a total lack of self restraint and showed me up, :B
,
While I just sat there being a good supporter  ;D

Much better to spout off on here than to the man that funds the club don't you think ?

You are  TRUST member now so you have turned full circle and defend the manager at every opportunity ,

I feel better now I have got that off my chest,

At the end of  the day we all want Town to be successful ,

If we are promoted then the manger will stay until a better offer comes along.

It's only us die hard supporters that are Town for life..

Quoted from grimsby pete

Ian do you remember sitting next to me at Braintree when we lost 5-0 ?

You shouted at John Fenty telling him this was unacceptable,

You showed a total lack of self restraint and showed me up, :B
,
While I just sat there being a good supporter  ;D

Much better to spout off on here than to the man that funds the club don't you think ?

You are  TRUST member now so you have turned full circle and defend the manager at every opportunity ,

I feel better now I have got that off my chest,

At the end of  the day we all want Town to be successful ,

If we are promoted then the manger will stay until a better offer comes along.

It's only us die hard supporters that are Town for life..

Well i am surprised he didnt clap em off  ;D

You can tell if Hurst is worried about the opposition he plays Mackreth and Monkhouse rather than Arnold or Marshall.

(yawn)(yawn)(yawn)(yawn)(yawn)(yawn)

Quoted from grimsby pete

Ian do you remember sitting next to me at Braintree when we lost 5-0 ?

You shouted at John Fenty telling him this was unacceptable,

You showed a total lack of self restraint and showed me up, :B
,
While I just sat there being a good supporter  ;D

Much better to spout off on here than to the man that funds the club don't you think ?

You are  TRUST member now so you have turned full circle and defend the manager at every opportunity ,

I feel better now I have got that off my chest,

At the end of  the day we all want Town to be successful ,

If we are promoted then the manger will stay until a better offer comes along.

It's only us die hard supporters that are Town for life..

It was unacceptable!! If Id have thought that being a Trust Board member precluded me from having a personal view Id have resigned ages ago. You make far too many assumptions really. If you actually read what I write you'd see that I don't defend the manager at every opportunity. I will feel free to defend him against the ridiculous assertion that he should be anywhere near the sack in October and I'll probably stick with that belief rather than change my mind after every win/defeat/draw.

Quoted from Maringer

But they aren't instructions, are they? Hurst has repeatedly (over the past few seasons) said he wants the ball to be passed more, but it is the players who tend to whack it long too often.

I think that is a very long way from the truth. Any manager worth his salt would drop/transfer/bollock players who did not do as they are told. So either Hurst has told them to pass more and they disobeyed him, or he told them to kick it long and there's a few fibs being told to the media.

The evidence is on the pitch. The ball is played long unless there is an easy passing opportunity (not the other way round) which is why he wants a striker who can play with his back to goal at the half way line. That's why the team struggles against any side that closes them down - no easy passing opportunities so - bang - up to the Wall.

If the manager really meant them to play differently, they would be playing differently.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

So if Disley or Clay gets injured during the course of tomorrow's game and under the assumption that Brown is not yet fit, who would you replace them with?

But that isn't the same as starting with East in centre mid is it ? Why try an unknown possibility in place of a known definite?

“Good managers make good sides. There’s no such thing as a side making a manager”

Paul Hurst tells them to hoof it long - they've done the same thing since he took the job.
LJL was made for Paul Hurst and Paul Hurst was made for LJL

If they don't listen to him about hoofing it down the middle, what hope have we got with anything else

Quoted from DickBarton

(yawn)(yawn)(yawn)(yawn)(yawn)(yawn)

Thanks Mr Fenty for your insightful comment, much appreciated.

we lost 5-0 that night pete, ive never seen town fans so angry. I walked away devastated by what I saw. Everyone had right to shout at the players and management that night

Quoted from Hagrid

we lost 5-0 that night pete, ive never seen town fans so angry. I walked away devastated by what I saw. Everyone had right to shout at the players and management that night

Without doubt the most shameful capitulation I have ever witnessed from a Town side if the fans had of strung Fenty up from the floodlights it would not have been an over reaction.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Thanks Mr Fenty for your insightful comment, much appreciated.

Although it makes for a good story I can assure you that Mr Barton is not Mr Fenty! 8)

Quoted from barralad

It was unacceptable!! If Id have thought that being a Trust Board member precluded me from having a personal view Id have resigned ages ago. You make far too many assumptions really. If you actually read what I write you'd see that I don't defend the manager at every opportunity. I will feel free to defend him against the ridiculous assertion that he should be anywhere near the sack in October and I'll probably stick with that belief rather than change my mind after every win/defeat/draw.

But its got nothing to do with it being October. From what I have read it is very much to do with what some posters feel he has/hasn't done over the last four years and the level of progression in that time.

Valid arguments I'd say. Dare I draw a comparison to what has just happened to Brendan Rodgers? ?(apologies if this has been discussed on the Rodgers thread, couldn't be arsed to read it!)

Quoted from Hagrid

we lost 5-0 that night pete, ive never seen town fans so angry. I walked away devastated by what I saw. Everyone had right to shout at the players and management that night

I do agree with you but lots have had a go at me because I change my mind a lot,

I can not help that, I wish I could be positive all the time but results and team selections will not allow me,

People are entitled to change their minds and that was my point,

Barralad would never speak to John Fenty like that today even if we lose 5-0 tonight.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Thanks Mr Fenty for your insightful comment, much appreciated.

Get your facts right ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Quoted from barralad

Although it makes for a good story I can assure you that Mr Barton is not Mr Fenty! 8)

;)

Quoted from cardiffmariner

Valid arguments I'd say. Dare I draw a comparison to what has just happened to Brendan Rodgers? ?(apologies if this has been discussed on the Rodgers thread, couldn't be arsed to read it!)

In a similar vein - someone's just said the side doesn't make the manager, but a lot of people say it was Suarez that made Rogers lead Liverpool to that great season.

Also, someone in the match thread tonight said the passing game went missing after the substitutions tonight. Is that the general consensus?

Quoted from cardiffmariner

But its got nothing to do with it being October. From what I have read it is very much to do with what some posters feel he has/hasn't done over the last four years and the level of progression in that time.

Valid arguments I'd say. Dare I draw a comparison to what has just happened to Brendan Rodgers? ?(apologies if this has been discussed on the Rodgers thread, couldn't be arsed to read it!)

At the risk of sounding like Grim Rob we have progressed every year. There wasn't a universal view or anything like that he should have gone at the end of last season therefore it stands to reason that it has EVERYTHING to do with it just being October...

Quoted from barralad

At the risk of sounding like Grim Rob we have progressed every year. There wasn't a universal view or anything like that he should have gone at the end of last season therefore it stands to reason that it has EVERYTHING to do with it just being October...

Level of progress not progress. And there is no universal view or anything like that now.

Hurst in or out has been around for much more than the last three months, it just went away for while.

Im not rooted in either camp but feel its simplistic and misleading to suggest that those who want rid do so based solely on what has happened this season. The "he'll never learn"', "he's still making the same mistakes" comments have been pretty consistent.