Just Back

Started brightly enough but after 20 minutes ran out of ideas!

Just one question... Why on earth did we Co tinue to lump it up to Cook when he constantly battling 2 giants?!?

Their number 6 got his head on everything and we played right into Yeovil's hands!

Very frustrating!!

Even though the ref gave us nothing it's going to be a long season on that showing.

Quoted from Mighty_Mariner

Started brightly enough but after 20 minutes ran out of ideas!

Just one question... Why on earth did we Co tinue to lump it up to Cook when he constantly battling 2 giants?!?

Their number 6 got his head on everything and we played right into Yeovil's hands!

Very frustrating!!

Regardless of the opposition that clearly wouldnt work for us, really suprised and dissapointed that this didnt change after half time aswell

Seventeen years ago to the day since we topped the Championship.

The ITV Digital dream well and truly dead based on that second half performance.

Jolley baffled me today. Why, if we're struggling to create anything, are we playing with fox and clifton on the wings. We were also clearly struggling to keep the ball, so why stick with 442 for so long.

Shockingly poor 2nd half, just hoof hoof hoof, Strange subs, a little doubt about Jollys tactical nous creeping in as his subs made us worse as opposed to an impact from the Yeovil subs. Still having no luck and a line of incapable officials making it even harder for us.

Original post pretty much sums it up...
But would add....awful choice of subs for me.

Couldn't make today, but i'm concerned about our appalling home record since we got back in the league. It's constant hard work being a Town fan, with only the odd good performance here and there to keep you going.  

Not defending that it could be a long hard season but of our 6 games played, 5 of those teams are in the top 7 at the moment. Understand it's early and 3 points can give you a big jump. Also can we stop all this messiah rubbish of comments like " in Jolley we trust" I think by now we realise he is not going to walk with on water.

Don't really think there's enough about this side to tear up any trees. Got some decent technical players but not enough energy, physicality or creativity. It's not like they deserved to win but they had that extra bit more when it mattered.

In the first half I thought we were more then a match for Yeovil and it looked very even, the constant hoof balls in the 2nd half though killed our chances as once again another team sat a little deeper against us which allowed them to soak them up easily with no height outside of our defence. Jolley's subs did confuse me a little and I thought they were poor choices. They scored a good goal but the shot should never of come in. Ref didn't give us a peno in the first half but we weren't good enough and shouldn't be relying on the ref. I can't wait to see Thomas starting in the side especially along side Vernam.

Some bright interlinking play between vernam and cook early on with the final ball being th let down. However that faded badly and we ended up punting it to Cook who was dwarfed by their defenders. We cannot play like that with the players we had on the pitch. Looks like we desperately need the physicality of Thomas up front. Or we need to learn how to play it on the deck and NOT to roll it back to Macca for him to hoof it forward. Macca also needs to react a lot quicker when he collects th ball so he can throw it out to a man in space.

Overall tho a good defensive performance, all their threats were snuffed out bar 1 cracking shot which they scored from. It's the final third we are struggling in, we have a lot of attacking players with little physical presence which is a concern if you are going to resort to the hoof so easily.

Quoted from toontown

Some bright interlinking play between vernam and cook early on with the final ball being th let down. However that faded badly and we ended up punting it to Cook who was dwarfed by their defenders. We cannot play like that with the players we had on the pitch. Looks like we desperately need the physicality of Thomas up front. Or we need to learn how to play it on the deck and NOT to roll it back to Macca for him to hoof it forward. Macca also needs to react a lot quicker when he collects th ball so he can throw it out to a man in space.

Overall tho a good defensive performance, all their threats were snuffed out bar 1 cracking shot which they scored from. It's the final third we are struggling in, we have a lot of attacking players with little physical presence which is a concern if you are going to resort to the hoof so easily.

I think the resorting to the hoof is more of a problem than the forward players, although it would be nice to have a big man to bring on should a game demand it

Average first half, second half abysmal. I can't actually believe that the players can't work out that hoofing it at two giant centre backs isn't likely to be very successful.

Our back 4 defended OK, sadly Harry Clifton not strong enough on the goal. Vernam bright, Famewo MoM for me.

Sorry but i dont rate MJ as a manager yet.. fine words and spirit got us over the line last year,, This year that fight just is not there,, and so far i can see no clear plan how we are supposed to be playing. no movement away from markers to open up gaps,, high balls to small players  and players playing out of position , we just look like 11 players out for a game . Either there not doing as they are told or they are just not good enough . Either way disaster is just round the corner if we dont improve and quickly.. and i cannot see the crowd being too nice for long

Vernam bright in the first half but again faded badly in the second. Not surprising considering his recent serious injury but we need better options off the bench to replace him when he begins to fade.

At this level, I think it is incredibly difficult for teams to play without some sort of a physical threat up front, whether it's size and strength or serious pace. Unfortunately, we don't currently have either which is why Hooper is starting all the time despite pretty average form. Playing Cook through the middle is all well and good if he's against a big slow clod, but their defence were plenty mobile enough to deal with his pace and movement most of the time and then of course, he fluffed his big chance near the end.

I don't think Pringle is particularly big, is he? Hopefully he'll be able to offer a bit more of a threat because at the moment, our forward line is lacking in any real strength, aerial ability or pace. Vernam probably the quickest we've got out there and their big No. 6 was able to match him for pace.

I thought Yeovil looked a decent team to be fair they’ve had a 4-0 away from home already, I can see them challenging for promotion. We just never really looked like scoring hopefully the new additions will give us better options. We are a better team than last season and there’s a long way to go, but I think mid table is the best we can hope for.

Pringle is 6ft 1 inch Maringer. He wasn't allowed to play today, but Embleton was, so why didn't MJ play him?. They are both sent out from their clubs to get game time, wont be long before they get called back for not being played, and go somewhere else. Seen it before with Slade, de ja vous images in my head, baffled.

I think all this changing formation cant be helping the players , we go 433 one week then 442 then we change to 352 so i honestly dont know what we are trying to do.

We played our best football so far in a 433 so what do we do today ? change to a 442 .

We play with hooper on the left while a natural winger in max wright sits on the bench. We know hooper aint good enough so why not play max wright ?

Im gonna be honest one week jolley impresses me the next  i wonder what is he trying ? Today lumping the ball agains 7ft defenders wont work but we constantly did it.

Frustrsted is the word so far and we need to stop all this changing about formations and please stop playing hoope for intercourse sake.

Quoted from denni266

Sorry but i dont rate MJ as a manager yet.. fine words and spirit got us over the line last year,, This year that fight just is not there,, and so far i can see no clear plan how we are supposed to be playing. no movement away from markers to open up gaps,, high balls to small players  and players playing out of position , we just look like 11 players out for a game . Either there not doing as they are told or they are just not good enough . Either way disaster is just round the corner if we dont improve and quickly.. and i cannot see the crowd being too nice for long

We'll never progress if we can't just give a new manager and a new squad time, before getting on their backs. It's entirely self defeating of the fanbase to shoot down the team before they've even got their footing.. so I'm hoping that the masses manage to just keep their dissatisfaction bottled up for a while longer yet. If by mid season we're seeing no real signs of progress, then I can understand folks getting discontent.

Woolford and Hooper again had no influence on the match. We replaced them with two equally ineffective wide players. Welsh hasn't got the legs to play in a 4-4-2 or a 4-4-1-1. We need to get back to a 4-5-1/4-3-3, impose what we want to do in a game and become effective at that. Jolley baffles me at times too. Maybe he's trying too hard to be too clever?

Bright spots..

Vernam first half
Whitmore defending
Hessenthaler again

The rest meh or below average. We are a pretty boring and frustrating side to watch..

Jolley's got a lot to prove to me, because with the players he has at his disposal, we should be playing better than this and definitely picking up more points than we have done already. We look uncohesive and all over the place. We played long ball today because there was no pattern to our play and we looked like we lack a little energy which is surprising as Jolley has prided himself on improving fitness levels within the squad.

Still relatively early days, but four good or adequate halves of football out of fourteen this season is a very disappointing start..

Quoted from Bigdog

Woolford and Hooper again had no influence on the match. We replaced them with two equally ineffective wide players. Welsh hasn't got the legs to play in a 4-4-2. We need to get back to a 4-5-1/4-3-3, impose what we want to do in a game and become effective at that. Jolley baffles me at times too. Maybe he's trying too hard to be too clever?

Bright spots..

Vernam first half
Whitmore defending
Hessenthaler again

The rest meh or below average. We are a pretty boring and frustrating side to watch..

Jolley's got a lot to prove to me, because with the players he has at his disposal, we should be playing better than this and definitely picking up more points than we have done already. We look uncohesive and all over the place. We played long ball today because there was no pattern to our play and we looked like we lack a little energy which is surprising as Jolley has prided himself on improving fitness levels within the squad.

Still relatively early days, but four good or adequate halves of football out of fourteen this season is a very disappointing start..

Woolford? The only one who looked to create anythinf? What game were you watching

Quoted from dicko995

Pringle is 6ft 1 inch Maringer. He wasn't allowed to play today, but Embleton was, so why didn't MJ play him?. They are both sent out from their clubs to get game time, wont be long before they get called back for not being played, and go somewhere else. Seen it before with Slade, de ja vous images in my head, baffled.

He was due to come on just before they scored...he was stripped and ready ......a couple of minutes later Rose appeared instead.

Quoted from Hagrid

Woolford? The only one who looked to create anythinf? What game were you watching

The game today and I trust my judgement. What did he create then? Because as far as I'm concerned Vernam was the only one that created the tiny bit of attacking threat all game..

The only one who looked to create anything? What does that mean? He created f all..

Got the ball down and played some lovely balls. That we didnt finish. Although i still think he’s better in a front 3 as displayed against lincoln. I have no clue what todays formation was

Quoted from chicaneuk

We'll never progress if we can't just give a new manager and a new squad time, before getting on their backs. It's entirely self defeating of the fanbase to shoot down the team before they've even got their footing.. so I'm hoping that the masses manage to just keep their dissatisfaction bottled up for a while longer yet. If by mid season we're seeing no real signs of progress, then I can understand folks getting discontent.

Trouble is  we are asked to do this every season and it never works out,,, come xmas  or even before we are well behind and the season is gone and are facing a relagation fight or close to it

Quoted from denni266

Trouble is  we are asked to do this every season and it never works out,,, come xmas  or even before we are well behind and the season is gone and are facing a relagation fight or close to it

Weren’t we close to the playoffs last Christmas? I don’t seem to remember facing a relegation fight at Christmas for a lot of years  

Awful performance no threat up front look like letting goals in, midfield no creation just long ball dross.
It’s going to be a yet another tough fenty season clinging to life.
Is Morcombe a relegation six pointer already.

My first game of the season. Don’t manage to get to many because of coaching commitments

After a bit of early promise in the first 10+ minutes, I was then extremely disappointed with what I saw.

Started brightly with some great combination play, particularly down the right. Should have had a penalty too. But following this we resorted to a very direct style of play, which Yeovil’s height advantage was very comfortable in dealing with all day long.

Very disapointing

First 20 minutes was excellent but then once we had a nailed on penalty denied we went into our shells and invited pressure from then on. We had no wingers to work anything around their defence so just resorted to hoofing it for their number 6 to mop up every time.

We didn’t do ourselves any favours today but booing at the end of the game is a bit harsh isn’t it?

Bright points are that cook looks very lively and I feel very comfortable with Welsh sat in front of the back 4, he breaks up a lot of play.

Disappointed but haven’t lost hope yet

Like said we started off brightly Vernam playing well made some chances and was unlucky not to get a penno.

Second half WTF HAPPENED??? We just resorted to aimlessly lumping the ball high up from the back straight to there big defenders.

Macca was one of the worst culprits time after time he had the chance to set the play up with a quick throw out.

What did he do, stop wave the players up and launch a high ball straight down that big No.5/6s throats losing immediate possession and it came back with interest to an already overworked defence that needed a break.

Sooner or later this was going to cost us and so it did.

Their goal was on the cards as soon as he turned the defender a large gap between Macca near his line and the post appeared.

The goal was well taken nevertheless.

Very poor second half reminded me of the Slade bad days and the Forest green game bringing Rose on the launch yet MORE high balls into FIVE FOOT FUCKALL Clifton, Vernam and Cook were baffling, to say the least.

Did we actually win any balls aimed up front when our defenders decided to bypass midfield and go route one ???

Possibly Macca and the defence are nervous about playing it out from the back, feel more confident booting it into the opposition halve believing they cannot score from there, not realising if you haven't got the ball you don't score.

Very frustrated today,i thought we started ok but quickly ran out off ideas. The subs absolutely baffled me,we are 0-0 at home against an ok team and he makes for me 2 negative changes, ok Hooper is crap but to replace him with a left back when there is a winger on the bench is crazy, thought Woolford did ok so changing him for Clifton didn't make sense either, was MJ hoping to hang on for a draw because that's what it looked like to me,Why did he bring Rose on at 0-1 when the young lad on loan was stripped ready for action, please god I hope it wasn't for his f$cking long throws that just added a little extra sauce to the pudding that their giant no6 had been feasting on all game.
I believe MJ needs to pick a system and stick to it because this is starting to resemble Bignot bingo
with players not knowing if they are coming or going. as for the ref and we cant use him as an excuse but again we get a poor rookie ref who bottled for me a clear peno and what would have been a straight red if it was one of our players.

Quoted from dicko995

Pringle is 6ft 1 inch Maringer. He wasn't allowed to play today, but Embleton was, so why didn't MJ play him?. They are both sent out from their clubs to get game time, wont be long before they get called back for not being played, and go somewhere else. Seen it before with Slade, de ja vous images in my head, baffled.

You are joking right!!!!

Pringle only signed at teatime yesterday so wasn't registered in time and Embleton in a young lad who's only trained with the club once!! But already their parent clubs are gling to be concerned of lack of playing time are they?!? Are Luton and Shrewsbury worried about their players not getting enough time on the pitch too?

Agree with most comments already posted but not sure this applies to Hagrid”s support of Woolford who I thought had a poor game today.

For me 4-4-2 needs wide players who pose a threat to the opposition, must have decent pace and/or skills to beat a man and leave him floundering we simply do not have this. Even in a reasonably decent first 20 minutes Cook And Vernam were frequently far too isolated and we lacked the pace and willingness to support the front two. Whilst Hendrie did ok going forward it clearly is not something that suits Famewo who was fine defensively but not an overlapping full back in any shape or form.

Complete lack of physicality meant we were simply brushed off the ball so for me Rose will need to be included along with Thomas, Pringle left midfield Nd Sunderland lad wide right and we may look, because we would be, a different side with hopefully some of those basics covered.

As others have said most mystifying thing to day was choice of subs which from what we have read was crying out for the Sunderland lads skills on the ball.

Finally agree with Ginnywings that when oh when will we start to have a decent home record with performances that make the journey worthwhile?

seemed to expect this type of game and result, although hoped for better,  worried about our lack of pace, bite and goal scoring threat
Agree with most that we seemed clueless to unlock Yeovil other than a hoof
I still believe there are worse teams in the league than us but we need to win a couple of the remaining Sep fixtures

Sounds like we missed Thomas

Regarding the subs I noticed that when Rose came on he went and stood next to Welsh and they both just looked baffled as to where each should be playing. Such a defensive change to make when we’re 1 down

Hooper has started what...six games? Has he had a good one yet?

Hooper was OK today. Worked hard, had one or two decent touches (Vernam should have played him through after their one-two instead of shooting). Didn't achieve anything less than our other attacking players, but he's the boo boy at present. I'm not claiming he was brilliant or anything but was OK.

I think Jolley brought on Fox for him because their big 'winger' who was good in the air (No. 16?) had moved across that side and we were theoretically moving to a back three. Fox competed decently in the air against him. The back three didn't amount to anything, of course.

I don’t think today was as bad as some think, yeah I know we lost the game but I still think the signs are there that we are better than last season. First half I thought we played really well and the clever Cook and Vernam were getting in behind and dragging their defence out of shape. Our only crime was not punishing them when we were on top. Second half Yeovil dropped deeper to stop us getting in behind and the longer the game went on we became desperate and tried to force the game by going long and straight down the throat of their huge centre halves.

Disappointing substitutions for me, I don’t get the idea of bringing on Fox, who was clearly well short of match fitness, to try and create something, and I don’t think Harry Clifton offered much on the other flank. I noticed that young Embleton was stripped off and ready to come on just before they scored, only to be sat back down so Mitch Rose could come on to launch throw ins into the box, again playing right into their hands.

Throw Thomas and Pringle into the equation and I think we’ll be a much better team.

From what I can see Walsh is now not a box to box player, with Whitehouse out, who according to reports was very athletic so could get into the oppositions box, are our current midfielders not assisting the attack enough, this might be why the 2 new lads have been brought in.

Quoted from jimgtfc

I don’t think Harry Clifton offered much on the other flank.

Well, he did put in an absolute peach of a cross which was begging to be netted. Unfortunately, Cook fluffed it completely.

I'd expect Embleton will start to get games when he has settled in a bit.

I’m a big supporter of Jolly but I’m very confused as to how he wants his team to play.
Pack the midfield?
Boot it up to any one who maybe near the opposition box?
Play out from the back?
I’m fooked if I know.
I still have confidence in M J but please make your mind up.
UTM

Really disappointed with today's game and performance and actually for the first time since he arrived MJ.

I thought once we settled and got to the middle period of the first half we looked o.k. and Cook and Verman in particular looked like they could do something providing that the supply from mid field came good. However it didn't as Hooper is not a wide player and in a 4 and Woolford is much less effective than when he's in a 5 man mid field hass he has more passing options to make the most of skill with the ball.      

In the second half we allowed our game to be broken up by a physical and savvy Yeovil and this is where MJ got it wrong as it was clear that we where not winning and retaining the ball in mid field in the second half and he failed to respond and when he did I think his subs where poor.

Bringing Foxy on for his first game after injury and expecting a full back to "provide crosses"as MJ said on RH was far too much  of a task. Then when we went 1 - 0 down sitting the new lad back down and bringing on Rose reeked of a "lets juts throw the ball in the box" mentality. I get if Rose had come on after 55 mins when we needed better retention and shape but Mitch is and IMHO will never be an impact sub. Max Wright has been on the bench for ages maybe it was time to throw him on in search of an equalizer but Mitch was the wrong option with a game to save.

So, disappointed to lose a game in which Macca didn't really have a save to make and also concerned with the following,    

- The poor decisions off the subs bench
- Players fitness, they looked knackered after 75 mins
- The ref, really poor fitness and either failed to deal with the big decisions or get them completely wrong.
- Our ball retention  
- Taking the Ariel route when we'd not won a header all day
- A quiet BP for most of the game.
- That the club didn't do something to fill an empty Osmond  
- The shop lost my shirt order and I still haven't got it ????

And........ that when JT did another interview in true "Dale Ladson style" MJ told us that he was unhappy with the players performance and had told them so (again!) before he took responsibility for the result, maybe it should have been the other way around?

All that said I'm sure things will get better as overall this season and in glimpses today I've seen enough to suggest a mid table finish but at the moment we are a big a "work in progress" one that might present us with a bit more pain in the coming weeks but will start to come good once MJ finds some balance and everyone is fit & available.

In MJ we (I) still trust..........

UTM!

Quoted from jonnyboy82

I think all this changing formation cant be helping the players , we go 433 one week then 442 then we change to 352 so i honestly dont know what we are trying to do.

We played our best football so far in a 433 so what do we do today ? change to a 442 .

We play with hooper on the left while a natural winger in max wright sits on the bench. We know hooper aint good enough so why not play max wright ?

Im gonna be honest one week jolley impresses me the next  i wonder what is he trying ? Today lumping the ball agains 7ft defenders wont work but we constantly did it.

Frustrsted is the word so far and we need to stop all this changing about formations and please stop playing hoope for intercourse sake.

Sums it up for me. Sheer frustration. Lincoln game showed how we could play. Appreciate we'll have lesser performances and may need to mix it up at times, but the constant chopping and changing isn't helping anyone. Pick a system, stick with it and only adjust when necessary - not every five minutes.

Too much shunting players into a system that doesn't suit. Our whole recruitment was based on a 3 man central midfield, why we're trying to now play 4-4-2 ,is beyond me.

Yeovil got their subs spot on. We couldn't have got ours any worse if we tried. Lack of ideas summed up when Embleton was about to come on, they score and Rose gets the nod instead. Bizarre.

We need to improve and start picking points up sharpish.  

We miss Collins' composure at the back, Davis and Whitmore too similar to each other. Famewo probably better off partnering one of them in the meantime. Rough and smooth combo.  Revert back to a 3 man midfield where Welsh anchors and runs the game. Cook or Thomas up top as the focal point in attack. Woolford giving licence to do what he did against Lincoln. Energy, energy and more energy making up the rest of the side.

I'd like to think we could eventually line up with something like:

Macca
(Back 4)
Welsh Hessenthaler
Vernam Embleton Pringle
Thomas

The 3 behind the CF could be capable of alternating positions.
Then you've got Cook to come in too either in place of Thomas or one of the three supporting. Woolford not in there but this is a system that could suit him playing where I've got Vernam (where he's had his better games this season).

As the other thread says though it's a transition and I doubt any team starts the season with the XI that will end up being the strongest XI come December. It will evolve with trial and error and while we find the right system and the right blend in different areas of the pitch.

Quoted from Tommy

I'd like to think we could eventually line up with something like:

Macca
(Back 4)
Welsh Hessenthaler
Vernam Embleton Pringle
Thomas

The 3 behind the CF could be capable of alternating positions.
Then you've got Cook to come in too either in place of Thomas or one of the three supporting. Woolford not in there but this is a system that could suit him playing where I've got Vernam (where he's had his better games this season).

As the other thread says though it's a transition and I doubt any team starts the season with the XI that will end up being the strongest XI come December. It will evolve with trial and error and while we find the right system and the right blend in different areas of the pitch.

In that formation Tommy would you expect the full backs to bomb on and Hess or Welsh to drop into a defensive role?  

Quoted from Maringer

Hooper was OK today. Worked hard, had one or two decent touches (Vernam should have played him through after their one-two instead of shooting). Didn't achieve anything less than our other attacking players, but he's the boo boy at present. I'm not claiming he was brilliant or anything but was OK.

I think Jolley brought on Fox for him because their big 'winger' who was good in the air (No. 16?) had moved across that side and we were theoretically moving to a back three. Fox competed decently in the air against him. The back three didn't amount to anything, of course.

I played four leagues lower than Town are playing in and in all seriousness there were loads of wide players in that division that could have performed like Hooper has this season and quite a few would be ashamed of his output. Don't know what's up with him. I've watched him closely this season. He's got the heart of a mouse, as threatening as a koala bear with one arm and no teeth, the work rate of a sloth and a footballing brain the size of a pea. God knows what's up with him. It's like his heart really isn't in it. There's thousands of lads who'd love to play in League Two, they'd give their right arm to have the chance. Hooper doesn't look like he's bothered enough to put a real shift in. Maybe I'm being harsh and he's simply just not good enough. It's like we've started with 10 and a half players every week and that's just not going to get us the results or performances we require. Time for him to have a spell out of the squad and decide whether he really wants to be a pro footballer or not..

Hooper, to me, looks like the player we used to have in the really dark times. Wants the wage but not the work - you've got to be really good to carry that off - sadly, he isn't.

Quoted from Bigdog

I played four leagues lower than Town are playing in and in all seriousness there were loads of wide players in that division that could have performed like Hooper has this season and quite a few would be ashamed of his output. Don't know what's up with him. I've watched him closely this season. He's got the heart of a mouse, as threatening as a koala bear with one arm and no teeth, the work rate of a sloth and a footballing brain the size of a pea. God knows what's up with him. It's like his heart really isn't in it. There's thousands of lads who'd love to play in League Two, they'd give their right arm to have the chance. Hooper doesn't look like he's bothered enough to put a real shift in. Maybe I'm being harsh and he's simply just not good enough. It's like we've started with 10 and a half players every week and that's just not going to get us the results or performances we require. Time for him to have a spell out of the squad and decide whether he really wants to be a pro footballer or not..

I defended Hooper last week. I can’t this week.

Wrong formation for me today, Welsh is not suited to a 442 formation, meaning there was little support for our front 2..  The midfield very rarely supported or ran onto the ball into the box.

Yeovil were better in the attacking third, other than that, there wasn't much difference.

Hoping the new guys can help create some chances as there is very little style or creativity looking at the team today..

Team is an improvement on last year. but I think it will take a couple more transfer windows to get us going in the right direction..  

Quoted from Bigdog

I played four leagues lower than Town are playing in and in all seriousness there were loads of wide players in that division that could have performed like Hooper has this season and quite a few would be ashamed of his output. Don't know what's up with him. I've watched him closely this season. He's got the heart of a mouse, as threatening as a koala bear with one arm and no teeth, the work rate of a sloth and a footballing brain the size of a pea. God knows what's up with him. It's like his heart really isn't in it. There's thousands of lads who'd love to play in League Two, they'd give their right arm to have the chance. Hooper doesn't look like he's bothered enough to put a real shift in. Maybe I'm being harsh and he's simply just not good enough. It's like we've started with 10 and a half players every week and that's just not going to get us the results or performances we require. Time for him to have a spell out of the squad and decide whether he really wants to be a pro footballer or not..

Bit in bold, at least he has given himself the choice, get off his back he's been playing out of position and the fact that you played at a reasonable amateur level a number of years ago is admirable but has no relation to this situation.

BTW are you coming to games now or watching them remotely on i-player?

Get off the lads back "we're all Town aren't we"?

  

We don't do comebacks do we......... genuine question.....

In how many games since MJ has been in charge have we picked up any points after going 1 down ?

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Bit in bold, at least he has given himself the choice, get off his back he's been playing out of position and the fact that you played at a reasonable amateur level a number of years ago is admirable but has no relation to this situation.

BTW are you coming to games now or watching them remotely on i-player?

Get off the lads back "we're all Town aren't we"?

  

i-Player Herts now I've got decent internet.

I wasn't trying to big time with my reference Herts. I've played against a few league clubs competitively so I know the physical and mental differences between the two levels.

Tell me when he's beaten a man in any game this season

Tell me how many times he's been caught napping when defending

Tell me how many headers he's shitt out of or been shrugged easily off the ball

Tell me what sort of effort he put in to try and head a quality cross in at the far post today when he was favourite for the ball

Tell me how many times he's tripped or fell over when running with the ball or just ran straight into a defender

He's playing out wide because he can't play with his back to goal and he's also said on record that it's his preferred position

He's a bottler without any bravery with the ball or challenging for it

I'm not getting on his back because if he had any sense he shouldn't be reading the Fishy

And if he does why should he take any notice of a no mark like me?

I'm just a fan airing my opinions on the games I watch and wanting my team to be the best it can be

I want him to do well because he's a Town player, but this season he's let himself down, his team mates down and also us fans

We've got better than JJ Hooper to play on the left who are prepared to put a proper shift in, full stop..

Quoted from promotion plaice

We don't do comebacks do we......... genuine question.....

In how many games since MJ has been in charge have we picked up any points after going 1 down ?

I must say that since MJ arrived we have been a good side in the first half of games but have been patchy in the 2nd, then again he inherited a squad low on quality and is now building for the future so still hard to assess.    

Obvious statement but we lack any real height, think MJ needs to realise this is league 2  and realise very quickly, got some good players who are technically adroit but sometimes you need that Peter Crouch type player who can lump up to and win the knock downs....could be a long, long season after what appeared to be an exciting season before that first whistle blew

I would rather play max wright on the left than jj hooper and i aint even seen max wright play a full game.

But its enough for me to know jj hooper is well below in anything we need. He at best is a sub when you aint got any subs.

Quoted from jonnyboy82

I would rather play max wright on the left than jj hooper and i aint even seen max wright play a full game.

But its enough for me to know jj hooper is well below in anything we need. He at best is a sub when you aint got any subs.

I'm with you on this one, JJ in all honesty worked hard today but to me offers nothing of use going forward, we needed someone to get beyond their backline today and we had that, vernham ran them ragged in the first half but hooper never anticipated anything...sooner we get Thomas back the better...as per last season we are completely toothless up front..

Sorry for the over elaborate post but - **** knows!!!!

Quoted from Maringer

Hooper was OK today. Worked hard, had one or two decent touches (Vernam should have played him through after their one-two instead of shooting). Didn't achieve anything less than our other attacking players, but he's the boo boy at present. I'm not claiming he was brilliant or anything but was OK.

I think Jolley brought on Fox for him because their big 'winger' who was good in the air (No. 16?) had moved across that side and we were theoretically moving to a back three. Fox competed decently in the air against him. The back three didn't amount to anything, of course.

They worked us out Hooper had TWO men on him constantly for high balls and by enlarge they nullified him.

Cook will NEVER be a threat in the air it is not his game s we have to play the balls to feet or in the channels to run on to not big hoofs from Macca and the back four.

Even Mike Jolley was kicking the water bottles down the touchline in frustration the players just are not listening to him.

Pass and move, pass and move we only have a SMALL squad in height and numbers how hard is this to drum into them???

Their defender had ot easy with the constant high hoofs just as Gaving Gunning did when FGR were here a few weeks ago did we learn anything ??????????

Seems not.

Still, early days but we have got to start learning this division is full of big defenders our forward line is small that is the clue ffs.

UTM.

Quoted from sam gy

Sounds like we missed Thomas

you're urine taking right ?

Quoted from Mrs Doyle

They worked us out Hooper had TWO men on him constantly for high balls and by enlarge they nullified him.

Cook will NEVER be a threat in the air it is not his game s we have to play the balls to feet or in the channels to run on to not big hoofs from Macca and the back four.

Even Mike Jolley was kicking the water bottles down the touchline in frustration the players just are not listening to him.

Pass and move, pass and move we only have a SMALL squad in height and numbers how hard is this to drum into them???

Their defender had ot easy with the constant high hoofs just as Gaving Gunning did when FGR were here a few weeks ago did we learn anything ??????????

It takes a while to re-programme
Seems not.

Still, early days but we have got to start learning this division is full of big defenders our forward line is small that is the clue ffs.

UTM.

It takes a while to re-programme footballers. I suspect that is why we chose to spend more time on the training ground than playing friendlies. It took Buckley over a season to get us playing pass and move football effectively, but it was worth the wait, that's for sure. I well remember Town fans complaining long and hard about "this tippy tappy rubbish" in Buckley's first season. "Just fooking hit it" could be heard from the stands many times in a game.

The players are clearly not playing the way Jolley wants them to, but it's up to him to keep plugging away in training, tweaking the formation and personnel until he gets what he wants. He will also need another window or two yet. I like what he is trying to achieve, i just hope that it comes off eventually.

It would be very easy to sign a load of big, fit, fast footballers and play route one, which would probably give us more early success results wise, but ultimately is limited in the long term. I am hoping that Jolley is trying to build something more for the future; a style of football that is more pleasing on the eye and needs less adapting if/when you rise up the leagues.

We are clearly now signing a better standard of footballer, and also lowering the age quite a bit. The question is whether the management team can get them functioning as an effective, winning unit. If they can, it will be worth the wait.

Not excusing anything but do feel we were denied a clear penalty yesterday

I saw enough yesterday to see we are moving slowly forward with a young hungry squad . It's gonna be bumpy till Xmas but should be ok after that .

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Bit in bold, at least he has given himself the choice, get off his back he's been playing out of position and the fact that you played at a reasonable amateur level a number of years ago is admirable but has no relation to this situation.

BTW are you coming to games now or watching them remotely on i-player?

Get off the lads back "we're all Town aren't we"?

  

No one likes to criticize individual players but surely it's obvious that JJ is living off his goals at the back of last season and has fallen away dramatically, he does not currently deserve his place in the team over the likes of others, and that's a sorry fact

Quoted from somersetmariner

you're urine taking right ?

No? I’ve seen a lot of people saying we missed a physical presence up top, and someone clinical in the box...pretty sure Thomas has been brought in to play that role.

Quoted from Garth

No one likes to criticize individual players but surely it's obvious that JJ is living off his goals at the back of last season and has fallen away dramatically, he does not currently deserve his place in the team over the likes of others, and that's a sorry fact

To be honest I don't disagree that we need to change the left hand side which is why I think we've got Pringle in. I also think that Hooper is playing out of position and that should be recognized, he did look better at MKD with a wider pitch but he's just not cut out for the role I've seen 4 games this season and  he's been average but I believe at least has tried to make an impact.

When he played a more central role under Slade he didn't make an impact either but that was under Salde where hoof ball ruled, I' not sure what his best position is but whether it's Hooper or AN Other I really get p1ssed off when we target individuals after we lose. Yesterday JJ was not the only one who brought little value to the side and not the reason we lost.  

Quoted from Bigdog

i-Player Herts now I've got decent internet.

I wasn't trying to big time with my reference Herts. I've played against a few league clubs competitively so I know the physical and mental differences between the two levels.

Tell me when he's beaten a man in any game this season

Tell me how many times he's been caught napping when defending

Tell me how many headers he's shitt out of or been shrugged easily off the ball

Tell me what sort of effort he put in to try and head a quality cross in at the far post today when he was favourite for the ball

Tell me how many times he's tripped or fell over when running with the ball or just ran straight into a defender

He's playing out wide because he can't play with his back to goal and he's also said on record that it's his preferred position

He's a bottler without any bravery with the ball or challenging for it

I'm not getting on his back because if he had any sense he shouldn't be reading the Fishy

And if he does why should he take any notice of a no mark like me?

I'm just a fan airing my opinions on the games I watch and wanting my team to be the best it can be

I want him to do well because he's a Town player, but this season he's let himself down, his team mates down and also us fans

We've got better than JJ Hooper to play on the left who are prepared to put a proper shift in, full stop..

I doubt he reads the Fishy and would be amazed if any players do, but he's not the reason we lost yesterday and prior to Pringle arriving did we have better available and proven to play wide left? I'm not sure but MJ seemed/seems to think he is the option.

From what I have seen of MJ the work ethic he promotes and the data he utilizes whether or not fans think JJ is lazy or a bottler the manager so far thinks he can do a job. I do think if Foxy & RHJ had been available JJ would have not made the starting line up as clearly the intention was to get supply from the flanks via full backs bombing on.

I'm also not sure what defines or measures a "bottler" in the modern game.        

Quoted from HertsGTFC

To be honest I don't disagree that we need to change the left hand side which is why I think we've got Pringle in. I also think that Hooper is playing out of position and that should be recognized, he did look better at MKD with a wider pitch but he's just not cut out for the role I've seen 4 games this season and  he's been average but I believe at least has tried to make an impact.

When he played a more central role under Slade he didn't make an impact either but that was under Salde where hoof ball ruled, I' not sure what his best position is but whether it's Hooper or AN Other I really get p1ssed off when we target individuals after we lose. Yesterday JJ was not the only one who brought little value to the side and not the reason we lost.  

I agree that Hooper was not the only poor player yesterday most were, but apart from a handful of games towards the end of last season he was dreadful in the most part.

You need to look back and see what the Port Vale fans had to say about Hooper if you want to look at criticisms of a player by his own fans.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

I must say that since MJ arrived we have been a good side in the first half of games but have been patchy in the 2nd, then again he inherited a squad low on quality and is now building for the future so still hard to assess.    

I agree about not being good for whole games and whilst we played very well against Lincoln and MK Dons in the first halves we didn't play very well in the full games against FGR and Newport.

My worry is that the only team we have managed to beat is Macclesfield and that was a bit of a struggle in the second half and they look even at this stage as they may be making a quick return the the National League.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

In that formation Tommy would you expect the full backs to bomb on and Hess or Welsh to drop into a defensive role?  

With Welsh naturally sitting so deep we can most definitely afford to have the full backs pushing on.

To be honest, I've picked that a bit blind really having not seen what type of players Embleton and Pringle are. If Embleton can play in a 3-man central midfield then we could just play the 433 we used against Lincoln and MK. Which would probably make more sense.

In the first 20 mins we should have scored at least once, however we didn’t. We need to be more clinical. Once we’ve scored a couple hopefully we will relax a little in front of goal and it all becomes easier.
Second half, for whatever reason we resorted to pumping the ball long continually, without success, why we did this I don’t know.
With the attributes of our side we need to keep the ball on the deck, at least most of the time.
Yesterday, yes was disappointing, but I’m still thinking we are much better than last season and have looked better in patches. Certainly didn’t need booing off the pitch, like we seem to do at every defeat.
And I do wish the “Three Stooges” sat near me in the Upper would make half as much noise when we play well , as they do when we don’t.

Patience required not a disaster
Forward line too light weight and rubbish in the air and so every high ball is picked off.
Hooper not great but not deserving off so much stick - he is hard working as is Welsh. One gets plaudits yet makes mistakes and the other gets slaughtered.
Whitmore/ Davis are both behind Collins for me and miskick too many.
The Fox sub yesterday was logical , their keeper distributed well ( unlike ours) and aimed for the winger who was winning the headers. The taller Fox improved this. For me Fox should be in this team and I bet he is next week. He adds balance and is consistent.
Their midfield was way sharper than ours - not sure what the issue is but we lack balance. What bit of width we has , has no pace and so unless you have a great day ( Woolford vs Lincoln) it will be easy to defend against.
Hope new midfileders are good as any of the current crop could be replaced. Collins back in a couple of weeks , I like the Luton lad but Davis does not impress me.
Poor so far but I am patient and so we will see. Give it 12 games and see where we are utm

I read a lot from posters saying we 'need fight' - I always think this is the natural English football fan default position when feeling frustrated
We actually need 'composure and craft' - eg: when Fox burst into the box late on and had the touch of a camel!

The players are fighting 100% - hard working, committed, playing for the shirt etc...not a problem at all

We lack cutting edge - that is the simple truth.

I went to MK Dons - we should have gone in 2-0 up but our failure to convert comes back to haunt us. But I saw enough in that game to give fans a lot of hope for the future

MJ (ie: GTFC) cannot attract a star striker like Akinde (simple matter of money) so we have to hope Wes Thomas can resurrect his goal scoring record of 1 in 4

A lot will also depend on Pringle and Embleton's attacking prowess

If 2 of those three come good we will be fine

I will be intrigued to see how MJ's final XI will line up - I expect Hooper, Clifton, Rose to be benched and Woolford perhaps on the bench

That would leave a choice of

Welsh, Embleton, Pringle, Hess, Vernam, Cook, Thomas - one of those would not be in starting line up

MJ to be judged when all his best players are available - might be 12-15 games

Have to be patient IMO

Quoted from devs

I read a lot from posters saying we 'need fight' - I always think this is the natural English football fan default position when feeling frustrated
We actually need 'composure and craft' - eg: when Fox burst into the box late on and had the touch of a camel!

The players are fighting 100% - hard working, committed, playing for the shirt etc...not a problem at all

We lack cutting edge - that is the simple truth.

I went to MK Dons - we should have gone in 2-0 up but our failure to convert comes back to haunt us. But I saw enough in that game to give fans a lot of hope for the future

MJ (ie: GTFC) cannot attract a star striker like Akinde (simple matter of money) so we have to hope Wes Thomas can resurrect his goal scoring record of 1 in 4

A lot will also depend on Pringle and Embleton's attacking prowess

If 2 of those three come good we will be fine

I will be intrigued to see how MJ's final XI will line up - I expect Hooper, Clifton, Rose to be benched and Woolford perhaps on the bench

That would leave a choice of

Welsh, Embleton, Pringle, Hess, Vernam, Cook, Thomas - one of those would not be in starting line up

MJ to be judged when all his best players are available - might be 12-15 games

Have to be patient IMO

Kinda think you may have hit upon something with this post, when we've played well woolford has been exceptional and in the 3 games we've not  played well I think woolie has been either poor or taken out of the game by a good defence which leads me to think that if get consistency out of him and another left sided winger, could be pringle/embleton, then put Thomas alongside cook I reckon we could start to see the goal drought ended...
Fox runs the wing well as does hendrie and I'd have thought with collins and whitmore as central defenders, welsh, hess in midfielder I'm thinking our best formation with the squad we have is the good old fashioned 4-4-2....

Our only meaningful shot yesterday by Vernam I think (?) came from a lovely cushioned header in to his path from JJ when in a central position. It’s a shame that didn’t go in, as I think confidence is really important when a new team are trying to gel.

To be fair to the crowd yesterday, they may have been a bit quiet, but I thought generally supportive and patient.  Perhaps that’s a sign of “resignation “, as how many times do we have a bright opening 20 minutes, don’t make the most of possession, and then get hit by a sucker punch.

The names change, but the story remains the same

I still believe we are better than last year, but do agree that the long ball tactics yesterday were totally ridiculous. If Jolley could see this then why bring Rose on for long throws?  Why did Macca hit every clearance long and not even “flat and fast”?, and why did Welsh as captain and a very experienced pro not calm it down and get the team playing football again?

Well I got back later than everyone else but for all I left MK Done excited I left yesterday worried
After 5 minutes my granny could have worked out that Vernam had the beating of their defence for pace but neither him or Cook would win a ball in the air all day against their centre backs. So what happened for the next 85 minutes?? No pace to turn their defence and remarkable nobody on the pitch to tell the boys to stop lumping it forward.
I sat near the dug out and every time we defended a corner MJ and Limbrick were screaming at Cook and Vernam telling them what to do. I got the distinct feeling they didn't understand, or more worrying they didn't think it made sense and wanted to do something different. MJ was also very unhappy with JJ and when he brought on Fox and Harry was telling them  he wanted more tempo and effort.
Harry is not a winger and if we are to persist with Cook and Vernam we need pace out wide to turn opposing defenders

Erm, when exactly did Vernam beat their defence for pace? He caught them on their heels a couple of times early on and got down the side but never got straight past them. In fact, I remember that their big No. 6 matched him on the couple of times he ran at him.

Not a criticism as Vernam was our quickest player on the pitch yesterday, but they were pretty mobile at the back and had a lot more pace than us elsewhere.

I don't think vernam had them particularly beat for pace either, altho he was more likely to win a race against them than an aerial battle!

You're not wrong there!